EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.22 19:10:00 - [1] Originally by: Theta9 I fly thoraxes and i must say that most people i fight against with it are stupid like uber uber stupid. What does that say about your courage. Grow a pair m'kay. Swap the Vexor and Thorax Drone bay and be done with it. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.22 19:16:00 - [2] Originally by: Kye Kenshin If the rax has always been like this why has everyone decided to whine about it just now? Is it bitter missiles users? Also why does everyone want to deny new players a pvp capable ship thats affordable and easily trainable or do we want everyone to train skills for 6 months till they can use a T2 ships or bs? Anyway as long as you increase pg and cpu you can nerf the drone bay all you want otherwise the rax will become useless Sorry but you haven't been around. When Castor came out with the new gun changes the Thorax got reduced to 1000 drone bay ( which yes would be 100 now ) and so many people complained it never maid it past a few days or so as far as I can remember. So many carebears cried because they coudln't mine low sec anymore that the devs were FORCED to leave it alone. Now its the PvP nubtards that are carebearing along with the miners because its WAY overpowered. I know its hard to see a good ship get nerfed but its been LONG time coming and it really makes the Vexor obsolete and worthless in comparison. No other Cruiser class has this problem. Caracal's are as popular as MOA, Stabber are as used as Rupture, Omens and Maller have their own places in the sky. The vex is outclassed by the thorax because the Nublars decided that having a mini battleship was good for balance. Oh yeah it makes the brutix a worthless pile too. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:32:00 - [3] Originally by: Paradox Eve As far as the "plate" issue goes. This is not a problem that is unique to the thorax. Oversized plates are a more general problem. They should adjuest speed of ship based on size of plate vs size of ship, like they do with AB and MWD. That a thorax may seem overpowered with oversized plates isn't a problem with the thorax- it is a problem with plates. I am sorry but thats just stupid. The only Problem with plates is that Shield Extenders AREN't as good as Armor Plates. Not speed, not agility, not anything else. The problem with the drone bay is that it is FAR TOO BIG at this point in EVE. Do I think 100m3 is too little? Only if they don't increase some other stats of it such as pgrid. CPU on hybrids isn't the thorax's fault it is a fault of the gun design and ALL of them need to be balanced according to the ship classes they go to. If everything ut the drone bay stayed the same... I would say 150m3 for the thorax and 2000 to 2500 for the Vexor. I stand with Naughty Boy on this... you guys and gals are just being un-freaking-reasonable. I can fly ANY cruiser in this game equally in all ways shape or forms and the moment I leave my munnin for something smaller is the moment I step into a thorax. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.23 22:32:00 - [4] Originally by: Paradox Eve As far as the "plate" issue goes. This is not a problem that is unique to the thorax. Oversized plates are a more general problem. They should adjuest speed of ship based on size of plate vs size of ship, like they do with AB and MWD. That a thorax may seem overpowered with oversized plates isn't a problem with the thorax- it is a problem with plates. I am sorry but thats just stupid. The only Problem with plates is that Shield Extenders AREN't as good as Armor Plates. Not speed, not agility, not anything else. The problem with the drone bay is that it is FAR TOO BIG at this point in EVE. Do I think 100m3 is too little? Only if they don't increase some other stats of it such as pgrid. CPU on hybrids isn't the thorax's fault it is a fault of the gun design and ALL of them need to be balanced according to the ship classes they go to. If everything ut the drone bay stayed the same... I would say 150m3 for the thorax and 2000 to 2500 for the Vexor. I stand with Naughty Boy on this... you guys and gals are just being un-freaking-reasonable. I can fly ANY cruiser in this game equally in all ways shape or forms and the moment I leave my munnin for something smaller is the moment I step into a thorax. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy The drones carriers can (vexor and arbitrator). The thorax is a blaster ship not a drone ship. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Aside from the drone bonus on the Vexor (an added bonus when cruisers were beefed up a while back, not an original feature) drones are not even mentioned in the description. Meanwhile, the Thorax description makes mention of blasters and "hordes of drones" to take apart its enemy. Thorax has low grid compared to other cruisers. Thorax has fewer slots compared to cruisers in its class. It makes up for this with "hordes of drones." There are ways to beat thoraxes...and a rupture with tech 2 howies can do it easily...particularly if the thorax is mwd-ing. The thorax needs its superior DoT because it has less time to do that damage in. Plain and simple. Having to run at least 15 seconds through withering fire with mwd on before you can land a single hit is punishing to say the least. Plate almost became a necessity because a non-plated thorax will generally die before it ever gets into blaster range. 1600mm plate means small guns. Small guns means the drones have to take up the burden of damage. Besides, as established, it is the premier drone cruiser of a drone-favoring race. So this is not a problem. To use your own argument... the MWD bonus wasn't an original feature of the Thorax so. So don't go tearing down one bonus based argument then assume your stance around one. Second...the DEVS wanted to curb the drones before and were yelled out of it because of carebear miners. Look I don't want the thorax to die a horrible nerf. I want it balanced. Its overpowered in PvE and in PvP. We aren't talking about roles here... like it being a primary Kin, Therm damage dealer so it needs to kill Minmatar and Amarr ships not Caldari or Gallente. We are talking about it being able to kill ANY ship with ease and not because it can fit a plate. ANY combat cruiser can fit a plate. The problem TODAY lies with the drone bay and the drone bay alone. This doesn't mean we don't think it needs boosting, because if they take the drones from it then it most certainly will. But all cruisers could stand a boost somewhere to make them even more attractive. PvP would benefit from it in general because of less money lost. ATM... too many people stay in empire because they don't want to loose their BS, HAC and faction ships. Give them a reason to use cruisers and you will see the true EXODUS to 0.0. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy The drones carriers can (vexor and arbitrator). The thorax is a blaster ship not a drone ship. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Aside from the drone bonus on the Vexor (an added bonus when cruisers were beefed up a while back, not an original feature) drones are not even mentioned in the description. Meanwhile, the Thorax description makes mention of blasters and "hordes of drones" to take apart its enemy. Thorax has low grid compared to other cruisers. Thorax has fewer slots compared to cruisers in its class. It makes up for this with "hordes of drones." There are ways to beat thoraxes...and a rupture with tech 2 howies can do it easily...particularly if the thorax is mwd-ing. The thorax needs its superior DoT because it has less time to do that damage in. Plain and simple. Having to run at least 15 seconds through withering fire with mwd on before you can land a single hit is punishing to say the least. Plate almost became a necessity because a non-plated thorax will generally die before it ever gets into blaster range. 1600mm plate means small guns. Small guns means the drones have to take up the burden of damage. Besides, as established, it is the premier drone cruiser of a drone-favoring race. So this is not a problem. To use your own argument... the MWD bonus wasn't an original feature of the Thorax so. So don't go tearing down one bonus based argument then assume your stance around one. Second...the DEVS wanted to curb the drones before and were yelled out of it because of carebear miners. Look I don't want the thorax to die a horrible nerf. I want it balanced. Its overpowered in PvE and in PvP. We aren't talking about roles here... like it being a primary Kin, Therm damage dealer so it needs to kill Minmatar and Amarr ships not Caldari or Gallente. We are talking about it being able to kill ANY ship with ease and not because it can fit a plate. ANY combat cruiser can fit a plate. The problem TODAY lies with the drone bay and the drone bay alone. This doesn't mean we don't think it needs boosting, because if they take the drones from it then it most certainly will. But all cruisers could stand a boost somewhere to make them even more attractive. PvP would benefit from it in general because of less money lost. ATM... too many people stay in empire because they don't want to loose their BS, HAC and faction ships. Give them a reason to use cruisers and you will see the true EXODUS to 0.0. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Sorry but the Oversized AB != Oversized Plates. There are delicate things in balance WHEN you have the speed to NOT be hit and tracking to hit WHILE having speed. Oversized plates do not make you Invulnerable to enemy ships. It makes fights last longer. You can use hardners, membranes on the lows to mitigate or enahance the same attributes. You can also conversely shield tank on other ships. You can also use your speed to mitigate being hit by a plated ship. You could only use Oversized and dual fitted ABs and nanofibers that enhanced them even more to compete or compensate. MWDs were poinless w. Oversized ABs. This is not the case with Oversized plates. You can use speed to mitigate the firepower coming from a cruiser in a smaller ship EXEPT for a thorax with its HUGE drone bay that wtfpwnbbq's frigs and other cruisers. It negates tactics to the Nth degree. It breaks gameplay and all you want to hold on to is a description. Son, my first char and some of my alts are gallente so don't try RP pride here. Its about logistics and statistics. You want to nerf a module to keep the uberness of the ship because it will STILL have tactical advantages over EVERY OTHER CRUISER in EVE's current state. The beauty of Cruisers is that it can either fit small guns/launchers and go for longevity or it can go for Medium Guns and raw DPS. The broken element in cruisers comes from throwback stats such as pgrid/cpu needs of Medium guns and small/large drone bays of a certain ships. If the Thorax gets 200m3 drones ... SIR ... I want 120m3 on a rupture. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Sorry but the Oversized AB != Oversized Plates. There are delicate things in balance WHEN you have the speed to NOT be hit and tracking to hit WHILE having speed. Oversized plates do not make you Invulnerable to enemy ships. It makes fights last longer. You can use hardners, membranes on the lows to mitigate or enahance the same attributes. You can also conversely shield tank on other ships. You can also use your speed to mitigate being hit by a plated ship. You could only use Oversized and dual fitted ABs and nanofibers that enhanced them even more to compete or compensate. MWDs were poinless w. Oversized ABs. This is not the case with Oversized plates. You can use speed to mitigate the firepower coming from a cruiser in a smaller ship EXEPT for a thorax with its HUGE drone bay that wtfpwnbbq's frigs and other cruisers. It negates tactics to the Nth degree. It breaks gameplay and all you want to hold on to is a description. Son, my first char and some of my alts are gallente so don't try RP pride here. Its about logistics and statistics. You want to nerf a module to keep the uberness of the ship because it will STILL have tactical advantages over EVERY OTHER CRUISER in EVE's current state. The beauty of Cruisers is that it can either fit small guns/launchers and go for longevity or it can go for Medium Guns and raw DPS. The broken element in cruisers comes from throwback stats such as pgrid/cpu needs of Medium guns and small/large drone bays of a certain ships. If the Thorax gets 200m3 drones ... SIR ... I want 120m3 on a rupture. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:44:00 - [9] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 01:44:51 Originally by: Imran Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier. I have never lost a PvP fight in EVE where it was cruiser+ combat. Sorry to break it to you. I pwned blackbirds back in 2003 when BBs shot Torpedo's at you. You know what won the fights for me... 8 ogres. I love the Thorax. I remember trading in my vexor and shelling out 2 extra pills for it back when I mined EVERYTHING I could fly in an IMICUS. Don't think we are asking for something too much. EVE has changed. The thorax hasn't. They have wanted it too but people wanted it to stay the same. Now there are some bloody obvious gaps because of it. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:44:00 - [10] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 01:44:51 Originally by: Imran Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier. I have never lost a PvP fight in EVE where it was cruiser+ combat. Sorry to break it to you. I pwned blackbirds back in 2003 when BBs shot Torpedo's at you. You know what won the fights for me... 8 ogres. I love the Thorax. I remember trading in my vexor and shelling out 2 extra pills for it back when I mined EVERYTHING I could fly in an IMICUS. Don't think we are asking for something too much. EVE has changed. The thorax hasn't. They have wanted it too but people wanted it to stay the same. Now there are some bloody obvious gaps because of it. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 13:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 13:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 14:20:00 - [13] Originally by: W0lverine Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. thats Bull dude How is it bull... I start out with frigate 4, have cruiser 1 within the next 2 hours... cruiser 3 within 2 days or so? I can't remember but I gave 3 for good measure. Small guns aren't as skill dependant and mechanic and repair systems don't have to be up there. The PG of the thorax without enginnering over lvl 2 will allow you for the plate setup + small guns and drones ins't that hard to get to lvl 3 which isn't that far from the MAX of most cruisers bay cap. By far this is severly overbalanced in much the same way kessie + cruise were back in the day for alts. The only thing is in the same time to get cruise missiles then... you coudl get drones to +8 heavies. IE... an alt is able to replicate an age old EVE flaw of imbalance with time investment. But a Thorax is by far an effective cruiser at 1 weeks skill as a two month old Caracal, MOA, or rupture. The ONLY other ship that can claim such low SP sink to get effective is a maller.... and it doesn't grow exponentially with skills as a Thorax because of the Drone bay. Care to tell me what is bull about that? jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 14:20:00 - [14] Originally by: W0lverine Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. thats Bull dude How is it bull... I start out with frigate 4, have cruiser 1 within the next 2 hours... cruiser 3 within 2 days or so? I can't remember but I gave 3 for good measure. Small guns aren't as skill dependant and mechanic and repair systems don't have to be up there. The PG of the thorax without enginnering over lvl 2 will allow you for the plate setup + small guns and drones ins't that hard to get to lvl 3 which isn't that far from the MAX of most cruisers bay cap. By far this is severly overbalanced in much the same way kessie + cruise were back in the day for alts. The only thing is in the same time to get cruise missiles then... you coudl get drones to +8 heavies. IE... an alt is able to replicate an age old EVE flaw of imbalance with time investment. But a Thorax is by far an effective cruiser at 1 weeks skill as a two month old Caracal, MOA, or rupture. The ONLY other ship that can claim such low SP sink to get effective is a maller.... and it doesn't grow exponentially with skills as a Thorax because of the Drone bay. Care to tell me what is bull about that? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 14:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Teles666 Oh god not another nerf bat :( Every time I train up for something they bloody nerf it back to the stone age. Hows about this - instead of constantly nerfing things, make other things better and give people more options to play with. Give, not take. If you are an older player... don't train up things that are overpowered for the stakes in exploiting a game flaw? m'kay. If your a noob then you have no grounds to talk. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 14:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Teles666 Oh god not another nerf bat :( Every time I train up for something they bloody nerf it back to the stone age. Hows about this - instead of constantly nerfing things, make other things better and give people more options to play with. Give, not take. If you are an older player... don't train up things that are overpowered for the stakes in exploiting a game flaw? m'kay. If your a noob then you have no grounds to talk. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 15:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Boragunda It's an elite cruiser... why remove what makes it special? those of you who played before the HAC and AF came out might agree. Awesome, every race has got one HAC worth flying, but gallente get 3 for the same skill . Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Which is why people cry nerf when its just mere balancing. They want their cake and eat it too while they train for a Deimos or Ishtar. Except when they get there... they will find out they have been using the best of the three for months. Best in that its cheap, as powerful, and benefits from anything you train for the others equally. The only ship above a Thorax that can hold a cost/benefit/performance noodle in the Gallente line is a Dominix. Not even a mega is a worthwile investment for PvP over a rax unless you want it JUST for killing a thoraxes. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 15:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Boragunda It's an elite cruiser... why remove what makes it special? those of you who played before the HAC and AF came out might agree. Awesome, every race has got one HAC worth flying, but gallente get 3 for the same skill . Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Which is why people cry nerf when its just mere balancing. They want their cake and eat it too while they train for a Deimos or Ishtar. Except when they get there... they will find out they have been using the best of the three for months. Best in that its cheap, as powerful, and benefits from anything you train for the others equally. The only ship above a Thorax that can hold a cost/benefit/performance noodle in the Gallente line is a Dominix. Not even a mega is a worthwile investment for PvP over a rax unless you want it JUST for killing a thoraxes. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 16:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Spaced Skunk ..do you people realise that you need uber drone skills to use its drone bay anyway? Besides..I think the thorax is a very good alround ship, thats what you all complain at...you people want it to be specialised, like the moa (long range) etc. A low SP Plate Thorax is on par with a Decent to Large SP insert your cruiser here With Drone skills maxed ( for a thorax's use ) it becomes VERY much like the old Kestrel w. Cruise Missiles of 2003. Get an alt... train it 2 weeks and go have some no risk fun. Very much like the torp raven w. 1.5mil SP chars during the Great Missile Wxorage of 2005. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 16:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Spaced Skunk ..do you people realise that you need uber drone skills to use its drone bay anyway? Besides..I think the thorax is a very good alround ship, thats what you all complain at...you people want it to be specialised, like the moa (long range) etc. A low SP Plate Thorax is on par with a Decent to Large SP insert your cruiser here With Drone skills maxed ( for a thorax's use ) it becomes VERY much like the old Kestrel w. Cruise Missiles of 2003. Get an alt... train it 2 weeks and go have some no risk fun. Very much like the torp raven w. 1.5mil SP chars during the Great Missile Wxorage of 2005. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Imran Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 01:44:51 Originally by: Imran Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier. I have never lost a PvP fight in EVE where it was cruiser+ combat. Sorry to break it to you. I pwned blackbirds back in 2003 when BBs shot Torpedo's at you. You know what won the fights for me... 8 ogres. I love the Thorax. I remember trading in my vexor and shelling out 2 extra pills for it back when I mined EVERYTHING I could fly in an IMICUS. Don't think we are asking for something too much. EVE has changed. The thorax hasn't. They have wanted it too but people wanted it to stay the same. Now there are some bloody obvious gaps because of it. Thanks for your life story you're welcome m'kay? jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Imran Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 01:44:51 Originally by: Imran Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier. I have never lost a PvP fight in EVE where it was cruiser+ combat. Sorry to break it to you. I pwned blackbirds back in 2003 when BBs shot Torpedo's at you. You know what won the fights for me... 8 ogres. I love the Thorax. I remember trading in my vexor and shelling out 2 extra pills for it back when I mined EVERYTHING I could fly in an IMICUS. Don't think we are asking for something too much. EVE has changed. The thorax hasn't. They have wanted it too but people wanted it to stay the same. Now there are some bloody obvious gaps because of it. Thanks for your life story you're welcome m'kay? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:27:00 - [23] Originally by: 656587 The thorax is an example of why EvE is not as popular as WoW. No ship smaller than a battleship should have a chance of killing one. Unless they form a large gang of small ships might they have a chance. That is like saying a level 1 barbarian with a dirk can kill a level 2 barbarian with a heavy sword. Makes no sense. A battle ships is expensive (60-110million isk). There are too many kinds of guns and cruisers/frigs etc.. Why cant EvE just have 1 of each ship and this will end all this confusion. 1 frig, 1 cruiser, 1 battle ship. And 1 size of gun for each. End of story. There are to many variables in eve to make it an enjoyable game compared to WoW and it is obvious who has the most customers. WoW is a on the other spectrum of gaming. Its for ye ol' luvers that whipe with parchment paper. Who cares if its more popular... Its still a boring game to many. Look on the bright side... EVE doesn't have the bugs of Galaxies nor the handbound development staff of City of Heroes. Both those games loose customers every week what eve looses in a year. The game isn't going anywhere because of a overpowered ship. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:27:00 - [24] Originally by: 656587 The thorax is an example of why EvE is not as popular as WoW. No ship smaller than a battleship should have a chance of killing one. Unless they form a large gang of small ships might they have a chance. That is like saying a level 1 barbarian with a dirk can kill a level 2 barbarian with a heavy sword. Makes no sense. A battle ships is expensive (60-110million isk). There are too many kinds of guns and cruisers/frigs etc.. Why cant EvE just have 1 of each ship and this will end all this confusion. 1 frig, 1 cruiser, 1 battle ship. And 1 size of gun for each. End of story. There are to many variables in eve to make it an enjoyable game compared to WoW and it is obvious who has the most customers. WoW is a on the other spectrum of gaming. Its for ye ol' luvers that whipe with parchment paper. Who cares if its more popular... Its still a boring game to many. Look on the bright side... EVE doesn't have the bugs of Galaxies nor the handbound development staff of City of Heroes. Both those games loose customers every week what eve looses in a year. The game isn't going anywhere because of a overpowered ship. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:36:00 - [25] Originally by: AlleyKat Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. Disagree, I took this from the Thorax set-up link from one of the GM's. (thanks, Dash Ripcock) Originally by: Dash Ripcock Thorax Electron II setup: High 4 * Heavy Electron Blaster IIs 1 * M Nosferatu I (Named) Medium 1 * 10Mn MWD I (Named) 1 * Webifer (X5 or better) 1 * Warp Scrambler (7.5km) Low 1 * RCU II 3 * Hardeners (Exp/Therm/Kin) OR 3 * Energized Adaptive Nano II 1 * M Armour Rep II Drones 4 * Praetors (EM) 4 * Bezerkers (Explosive) Are you telling me that this kind of setup doesn't take months and months to obtain? And now you want to nerf it all to hell? If you think the Thorax is that good and that powerful, I have a suggestion for you, just train it up, oh, I forgot, you are training up your alt for a Thorax anyway. Actually I build alts for other races because I collect characters. I can fly a thorax with this character better than most people can fly their own races ships. I've used thoraxes since September 2003 and I refuse to use them in their state. I don't use a thorax on my alt but I CAN. Btw the setup you posted is a specialized setup which the thorax DOESN'T NEED to be effective. LOL don't try to tell me what I do with my chars. I have one of every race and they can all fly Cruisers AND/OR BSs from their race tree. As soon as the Khanid Characters come out I will be dumping a matari place holder for that. Does that mean I am going to train it up to fly a thorax? Hell no because I can fly thorax on my Gallente Char AND this main ( which I need to fly a deimos AND Machariel FYI ) Try to catch some other person being slinky... I don't grief, won't grief, nor exploit game mechanics to get cheep thrills. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 20:36:00 - [26] Originally by: AlleyKat Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 24/08/2005 13:22:25 Originally by: AlleyKat The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! I have an alt that in 3 days time could fly a plate rax without drones. Within the week he could have decent small gunnery skills. With just basic drone skills this Thorax and 150k SP ( if that ) is capable of holding its own vs. a dedicated cruiser pilot witn 3+mil SP of another race. Ballance? No. The thorax gets better exponentially... other cruisers don't have the ability. Disagree, I took this from the Thorax set-up link from one of the GM's. (thanks, Dash Ripcock) Originally by: Dash Ripcock Thorax Electron II setup: High 4 * Heavy Electron Blaster IIs 1 * M Nosferatu I (Named) Medium 1 * 10Mn MWD I (Named) 1 * Webifer (X5 or better) 1 * Warp Scrambler (7.5km) Low 1 * RCU II 3 * Hardeners (Exp/Therm/Kin) OR 3 * Energized Adaptive Nano II 1 * M Armour Rep II Drones 4 * Praetors (EM) 4 * Bezerkers (Explosive) Are you telling me that this kind of setup doesn't take months and months to obtain? And now you want to nerf it all to hell? If you think the Thorax is that good and that powerful, I have a suggestion for you, just train it up, oh, I forgot, you are training up your alt for a Thorax anyway. Actually I build alts for other races because I collect characters. I can fly a thorax with this character better than most people can fly their own races ships. I've used thoraxes since September 2003 and I refuse to use them in their state. I don't use a thorax on my alt but I CAN. Btw the setup you posted is a specialized setup which the thorax DOESN'T NEED to be effective. LOL don't try to tell me what I do with my chars. I have one of every race and they can all fly Cruisers AND/OR BSs from their race tree. As soon as the Khanid Characters come out I will be dumping a matari place holder for that. Does that mean I am going to train it up to fly a thorax? Hell no because I can fly thorax on my Gallente Char AND this main ( which I need to fly a deimos AND Machariel FYI ) Try to catch some other person being slinky... I don't grief, won't grief, nor exploit game mechanics to get cheep thrills. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Also, god, if you'd read any of my bazillion other threads, you'd know that a Thorax, approaching with a MWD and a 1600mm plate, can take thousands of points of damage on the approach, but once it's in under the enemy's guns and letting loose with its 253 DPS, it doesn't matter much. Which is why the plate issue for all ships needs to be addressed, not the drones issue for the thorax. Nerfing the plates nerf ALL Cruisers. Nerfing the drone bay on the thorax brings the thorax back in line with the tier 3 cruisers. How can you be so blind? You want to keep something that even the DEVs wanted to take away at one point because they saw a problem and said they would revisit it when it became a bigger problem. Now it is a blatent problem because drones do superior damage and its not just because of plates. You forget MANY people use Webs for PvP and Webs + Drones = better than any small or medium rack of guns. Plates put put ALL combat capable cruisers into large armor range NOT just the thorax. You just want your cake. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:19:00 - [30] Originally by: Zophi OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. It has already been stated in this thread that Dominix is the better ship. As for the rest of your post... you don't get out much do you? I am in Sansha space and all i see are inties, ACs and Thoraxes with the rare occasion of a Apoc or Rupture. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Zophi OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. It has already been stated in this thread that Dominix is the better ship. As for the rest of your post... you don't get out much do you? I am in Sansha space and all i see are inties, ACs and Thoraxes with the rare occasion of a Apoc or Rupture. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:54:00 - [32] If making Drones specific to ship class is the final solution then I will live with it. If they even want an advanced drone interfacing rank(8-12) to increase +1 drone per level I am all for that. i don't care if a Thorax can use 15 Medium Drones NOR do I care if a Vexor can use 20 lights. Its when you can use 8 heavies with little SP investment ( compared to a AF, HAC, BS pilot ) and still have a comparable or better ship. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:54:00 - [33] If making Drones specific to ship class is the final solution then I will live with it. If they even want an advanced drone interfacing rank(8-12) to increase +1 drone per level I am all for that. i don't care if a Thorax can use 15 Medium Drones NOR do I care if a Vexor can use 20 lights. Its when you can use 8 heavies with little SP investment ( compared to a AF, HAC, BS pilot ) and still have a comparable or better ship. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Hephaesteus Just saying dude some of you tossers will whine about anything. Get a life. This thread isn't a whine... your post is... however I think Naughty has proven his preliminary case and given CCP relevant terms to look into this subject. Not only has the opposing voice in this thread not looked at concrete eveidence but is basing his motives on the description of the ship. Something has to be done to take either take 8 heavies out of the Rax's portfolio OR it needs to loose some turret points. You can't have both. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 22:46:00 - [35] Originally by: Hephaesteus Just saying dude some of you tossers will whine about anything. Get a life. This thread isn't a whine... your post is... however I think Naughty has proven his preliminary case and given CCP relevant terms to look into this subject. Not only has the opposing voice in this thread not looked at concrete eveidence but is basing his motives on the description of the ship. Something has to be done to take either take 8 heavies out of the Rax's portfolio OR it needs to loose some turret points. You can't have both. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Whats with all the people ignoring those saying that its the plate thats the problem, not the drone bay. Even the rax pilot from that vid, says that its the plate that overpowers the rax. Everyone i know who PvP's says kill the drones you kill the rax.. and some of those are rax pilots. Noone here is saying Plates Aren't A Problem they just aren't THIS problem. We need to bring the Thorax out of HAC land damage wise before we cascade a change to ALL cruisers that will still leave the PROBLEM this whole thread has proven time and time again. Nerfing Plates without boosting cruisers is going to break something you DO NOT WANT broken at this point in time... close range cruiser battles across the board. Its just you know... some other pilots besides Rax Pilots would like to get into all the fun... because they watch on the side line while Thorax pget into the fun without their counterpart pwning them right and left unjustly. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 14:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 26/08/2005 14:50:06 Originally by: Toshiro Khan Whats with all the people ignoring those saying that its the plate thats the problem, not the drone bay. Even the rax pilot from that vid, says that its the plate that overpowers the rax. Everyone i know who PvP's says kill the drones you kill the rax.. and some of those are rax pilots. Noone here is saying Plates Aren't A Problem they just aren't THIS problem. We need to bring the Thorax out of HAC land damage wise before we cascade a change to ALL cruisers that will still leave the PROBLEM this whole thread has proven time and time again. Nerfing Plates without boosting cruisers is going to break something you DO NOT WANT broken at this point in time... close range cruiser battles across the board. Its just you know... some other pilots besides Rax Pilots would like to get into all the fun... because they watch on the side line while Thorax get into the fun without their counterpart coming even close to useful. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful Fix, nerf, remove plates from all cruisers and your still left with a SERIOUS problem called Thorax with 8 Heavy Drones. Doesn't matter what type you have on, if you name them, if they fetch your slippers because at the end of the day its still a HUGE problem. You want either a) nothing to happen at all or b) Plates to be changed a) HUGE imbalance that's almost stressing b) Even bigger imbalance thats really irritating you would even consider Until you take care of one problem you are still left with one flat out fact... Thorax > Every Cruiser in EVE. Plate or No plate. Not only do you effect Cruisers if you want Oversized plates to be taken away, you also effect HACs and AF. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful Fix, nerf, remove plates from all cruisers and your still left with a SERIOUS problem called Thorax with 8 Heavy Drones. Doesn't matter what type you have on, if you name them, if they fetch your slippers because at the end of the day its still a HUGE problem. You want either a) nothing to happen at all or b) Plates to be changed a) HUGE imbalance that's almost stressing b) Even bigger imbalance thats really irritating you would even consider Until you take care of one problem you are still left with one flat out fact... Thorax > Every Cruiser in EVE. Plate or No plate. Not only do you effect Cruisers if you want Oversized plates to be taken away, you also effect HACs and AF. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:11:00 - [40] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 26/08/2005 20:12:40 Originally by: Garreck You're forgetting that by stepping down to 650s, you open up the possibility of fitting a couple of heavy launchers. There's a reason thoraxes don't fit rails. They just can't compete. They have to sacrifice too much in all other areas of combat effectiveness. You're an idiot with blatent disregard for this games mechanics. Not only do you say a rupture is better at long range than a thorax but you say the thorax needs it's UBER damage to kill anything. Well sir a Thorax fighting a ranged rupture will NEVER die because a Thorax will NEVER forced to stay in a fight. Go home and take your lam'a'rax you claim to have with you.. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:11:00 - [41] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 26/08/2005 20:12:40 Originally by: Garreck You're forgetting that by stepping down to 650s, you open up the possibility of fitting a couple of heavy launchers. There's a reason thoraxes don't fit rails. They just can't compete. They have to sacrifice too much in all other areas of combat effectiveness. You're an idiot with blatent disregard for this games mechanics. Not only do you say a rupture is better at long range than a thorax but you say the thorax needs it's UBER damage to kill anything. Well sir a Thorax fighting a ranged rupture will NEVER die because a Thorax will NEVER forced to stay in a fight. Go home and take your lam'a'rax you claim to have with you.. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Adamus TorK chill guys, and adapt Sorry but there is no adapt argument that will fly in this case. Thorax is severly imbalanced. Basically what your saying is the Thoraxes are grossly overpowered but like it or not shut up. Who made you king? Thorax users DON'T have to adapt because they have the full montey despite what the peanut gallery says. Currently, without a plate, the Thorax is still diverse, as much as any cruiser can be. But when it comes to Short range let me quote this dude Garreck : Quote: extreme up-close dps Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage and diversity. No cruiser has it so why should the Rax? Noone can answer that question. If the Thorax should have extreme damage up close then a 720mm Rupture should have extreme damage at range. This is clearly not the case. 650mm suck even more. 650mm IIs are pizz poor when compared to even dual 180 IIs. 650 IIs will put you inside scramble range and that is where the rax will start to bbq ur fries. 720mm IIs severly gimp your ship for pvp for anything but gatecamping for indies and nub frigs. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Adamus TorK chill guys, and adapt Sorry but there is no adapt argument that will fly in this case. Thorax is severly imbalanced. Basically what your saying is the Thoraxes are grossly overpowered but like it or not shut up. Who made you king? Thorax users DON'T have to adapt because they have the full montey despite what the peanut gallery says. Currently, without a plate, the Thorax is still diverse, as much as any cruiser can be. But when it comes to Short range let me quote this dude Garreck : Quote: extreme up-close dps Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage and diversity. No cruiser has it so why should the Rax? Noone can answer that question. If the Thorax should have extreme damage up close then a 720mm Rupture should have extreme damage at range. This is clearly not the case. 650mm suck even more. 650mm IIs are pizz poor when compared to even dual 180 IIs. 650 IIs will put you inside scramble range and that is where the rax will start to bbq ur fries. 720mm IIs severly gimp your ship for pvp for anything but gatecamping for indies and nub frigs. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Turin OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. what is your definition of fine? jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Turin OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. what is your definition of fine? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.27 00:10:00 - [46] I want an answer as to why the Thorax DESERVES the damage it gets when you compare it to other cruisers. Don't give me some roleplay, i luv my rax crap. I suffered through over 6 months and months of tracking problems on Large Projectiles with the last turret overhaul for someone to try that crap. If the Thorax DESERVES it so does my Typhoon, my stabber, my Torp Raven ( cause according to your theory based on the Megapulse Geddon I still don't have enough ) and any other short range combat ship. My wolf needs either a 20% damage bonus or 50m3 of drone space... m'kay and a cruise missile point on my jaguar would not be too much for freaking ask would it? jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.27 00:10:00 - [47] I want an answer as to why the Thorax DESERVES the damage it gets when you compare it to other cruisers. Don't give me some roleplay, i luv my rax crap. I suffered through over 6 months and months of tracking problems on Large Projectiles with the last turret overhaul for someone to try that crap. If the Thorax DESERVES it so does my Typhoon, my stabber, my Torp Raven ( cause according to your theory based on the Megapulse Geddon I still don't have enough ) and any other short range combat ship. My wolf needs either a 20% damage bonus or 50m3 of drone space... m'kay and a cruise missile point on my jaguar would not be too much for freaking ask would it? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats

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